Comments on: Wine and Sulfites: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/ The Online Wine Magazine Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:25:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: vinosseur http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/comment-page-1/#comment-1914 vinosseur Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:40:29 +0000 http://palatepress.com/?p=3311#comment-1914 Fabius, Nicely written and hats off to you for not using sulfur. The grapes have to be perfectly healthy in order to make wine without the use of sulfur, as you know. Bean, It's a shame that your experience with un-sulfured Pinot Noir was not a good one. It is not easy to make wine without the use of sulfur, and it can create instability. I carefully select the wines on my wine list that have been made without the use of sulfur. And I will say again, that these wines once opened and oxygenated are much more stable than the wines made conventionally. I am speaking from my 6 years of experience working in a top wine bar (which had mostly conventionally made wine - over 500 titles) and a restaurant (currently) with the largest selection of carefully selected, natural, un-sulfured wines in Norway. I have much less wasted today and am certainly able to leave wines open for a much longer time. Sondra, You say that un-sulfured wines certainly don't keep once opened.. Yet, you have only tasted organic wines that you though were ok.. Have you tried a wine without the use of sulfur? A well-made one? I just tasted a few days ago a wine made by Domaine le Mazel that I had opened 13 days before, and it was still the same as the day I opened it. They have been making wine without the use of sulfur since 1998. Again, you must carefully select your producer. If you would like some suggestions on which wine(s) to try, I would love to suggest some. Send me an email and I will reply :-) Charlie, You say "That’s the sulfite issue: wines with no or very low sulfites often oxidize in the bottle within a period of months!" Do they really? Perhaps this is more of a storage issue than anything else. There is so little air in the bottle once the cork is inserted and very little oxygen exchange and if stored properly, under 60F, their should be no problem with oxidation. Again, I speak from experience. I sell approx $40K in natural wine per month, even vintages going back 3 and 4 years. I have very little issues with unwanted oxidation. By the way, I would too be interested in a side by side study of the same wine made with and without sulfur - that would be interesting! :-) I will finish by saying that I am not against sulfur, just the over use of it! Moderation is the key to a healthy life! Fabius,
Nicely written and hats off to you for not using sulfur. The grapes have to be perfectly healthy in order to make wine without the use of sulfur, as you know.

Bean,

It’s a shame that your experience with un-sulfured Pinot Noir was not a good one. It is not easy to make wine without the use of sulfur, and it can create instability. I carefully select the wines on my wine list that have been made without the use of sulfur. And I will say again, that these wines once opened and oxygenated are much more stable than the wines made conventionally. I am speaking from my 6 years of experience working in a top wine bar (which had mostly conventionally made wine – over 500 titles) and a restaurant (currently) with the largest selection of carefully selected, natural, un-sulfured wines in Norway. I have much less wasted today and am certainly able to leave wines open for a much longer time.

Sondra,

You say that un-sulfured wines certainly don’t keep once opened.. Yet, you have only tasted organic wines that you though were ok.. Have you tried a wine without the use of sulfur? A well-made one? I just tasted a few days ago a wine made by Domaine le Mazel that I had opened 13 days before, and it was still the same as the day I opened it. They have been making wine without the use of sulfur since 1998. Again, you must carefully select your producer. If you would like some suggestions on which wine(s) to try, I would love to suggest some. Send me an email and I will reply :-)

Charlie,

You say “That’s the sulfite issue: wines with no or very low sulfites often oxidize in the bottle within a period of months!” Do they really? Perhaps this is more of a storage issue than anything else. There is so little air in the bottle once the cork is inserted and very little oxygen exchange and if stored properly, under 60F, their should be no problem with oxidation. Again, I speak from experience. I sell approx $40K in natural wine per month, even vintages going back 3 and 4 years. I have very little issues with unwanted oxidation. By the way, I would too be interested in a side by side study of the same wine made with and without sulfur – that would be interesting! :-)

I will finish by saying that I am not against sulfur, just the over use of it! Moderation is the key to a healthy life!

]]> By: Ветеринар http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/comment-page-1/#comment-1795 Ветеринар Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:56:07 +0000 http://palatepress.com/?p=3311#comment-1795 Lovely Lovely

]]> By: Charlie Adler http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/comment-page-1/#comment-1756 Charlie Adler Mon, 07 Dec 2009 13:06:30 +0000 http://palatepress.com/?p=3311#comment-1756 Great article except for one fact: I don't think many people are very concerned about wine preservation AFTER the bottle is opened, I think most are more concerned about INSIDE the bottle BEFORE it's opened. That's the sulfite issue: wines with no or very low sulfites often oxidize in the bottle within a period of months! The key is that added sulfites make bottled wines more shelf-stable and more age-worthy (well, that's another point!). A study I'd like to see is two identical wines - except one has added sulfites and the other doesn't - and how they taste opened over a period of time.. Great article except for one fact: I don’t think many people are very concerned about wine preservation AFTER the bottle is opened, I think most are more concerned about INSIDE the bottle BEFORE it’s opened. That’s the sulfite issue: wines with no or very low sulfites often oxidize in the bottle within a period of months! The key is that added sulfites make bottled wines more shelf-stable and more age-worthy (well, that’s another point!). A study I’d like to see is two identical wines – except one has added sulfites and the other doesn’t – and how they taste opened over a period of time..

]]> By: wineconversation.com » Blog Archive » Naturally adventurous http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/comment-page-1/#comment-1742 wineconversation.com » Blog Archive » Naturally adventurous Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:33:55 +0000 http://palatepress.com/?p=3311#comment-1742 [...] after a visit and tasting at Artisan & Vine. The concept is intriguing, but not without its complications and controversies (argued with his usual passion by my good friend [...] [...] after a visit and tasting at Artisan & Vine. The concept is intriguing, but not without its complications and controversies (argued with his usual passion by my good friend [...]

]]> By: Dennis Weiher http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/comment-page-1/#comment-1671 Dennis Weiher Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:50:02 +0000 http://palatepress.com/?p=3311#comment-1671 As an amature winemaker (of 47 yrars) who keeps an immaculate cellar in the making process, I have experimented several years with no sulfites added. I have found that wines do not last more than 1-2 years. They are equal to, but they don't surpass, the quality of my sulfited wines. So I stick to the mninimalist concept of sulfites. I do not accept grapes that require sulfite in the making process. I sulfite the finished wine to the 20-30 ppm fixed prior to bottling - whites on the high side and reds on the low. As an amature winemaker (of 47 yrars) who keeps an immaculate cellar in the making process, I have experimented several years with no sulfites added. I have found that wines do not last more than 1-2 years. They are equal to, but they don’t surpass, the quality of my sulfited wines. So I stick to the mninimalist concept of sulfites. I do not accept grapes that require sulfite in the making process. I sulfite the finished wine to the 20-30 ppm fixed prior to bottling – whites on the high side and reds on the low.

]]> By: Sondra http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/comment-page-1/#comment-1551 Sondra Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:36:17 +0000 http://palatepress.com/?p=3311#comment-1551 Amy, great article. I think the conclusion still is non-sulfite wines are not for long term drinking. They certainly don't keep once opened nor recommended to age for more than a year or two. Of course, this shows my bias as I have yet to taste an organic wine that was more than ok or decent. On the other hand, there are fabulous wines made with organically grown grapes. Can you name an excellent organic wine? Amy, great article. I think the conclusion still is non-sulfite wines are not for long term drinking. They certainly don’t keep once opened nor recommended to age for more than a year or two. Of course, this shows my bias as I have yet to taste an organic wine that was more than ok or decent. On the other hand, there are fabulous wines made with organically grown grapes. Can you name an excellent organic wine?

]]> By: Brett Chappell http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/comment-page-1/#comment-1550 Brett Chappell Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:53:47 +0000 http://palatepress.com/?p=3311#comment-1550 Amy, Great piece. Wine is just like anything else -- GIGO. Sadly, too much now is GI. Farmers who rely on their wines for their living tend to take more care; they need less crutches. @Randy - I'd like to follow you down this high sugar rabbit hole - I think it's one of the biggest problems in the business. Amy, Great piece. Wine is just like anything else — GIGO. Sadly, too much now is GI. Farmers who rely on their wines for their living tend to take more care; they need less crutches. @Randy – I’d like to follow you down this high sugar rabbit hole – I think it’s one of the biggest problems in the business.

]]> By: Wine and sulfites… « Stoned Wino http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/comment-page-1/#comment-1547 Wine and sulfites… « Stoned Wino Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:33:31 +0000 http://palatepress.com/?p=3311#comment-1547 [...] that explains the wine and sulfites story better than I ever could. The post is titled – Wine and Sulfites:  The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Check it out. You will get a much better understanding of the relationship between wine and [...] [...] that explains the wine and sulfites story better than I ever could. The post is titled – Wine and Sulfites:  The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Check it out. You will get a much better understanding of the relationship between wine and [...]

]]> By: Measuring their workouts in … miles & ounces | Running Leisure Knowledge http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/comment-page-1/#comment-1545 Measuring their workouts in … miles & ounces | Running Leisure Knowledge Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:13:30 +0000 http://palatepress.com/?p=3311#comment-1545 [...] Wine and Sulfites: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly : PALATE PRESS [...] [...] Wine and Sulfites: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly : PALATE PRESS [...]

]]> By: Fabius http://palatepress.com/2009/11/sulfites/comment-page-1/#comment-1543 Fabius Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:08:47 +0000 http://palatepress.com/?p=3311#comment-1543 Excellent well-balanced article. As you say, it's not a black and white issue. As producers of natural wines, we don't add any sulfites to our wines. I really can't comment on whether non-sulfite wines can be drunk up to two weeks after opening, because I've never done the experiment! We have other reasons though for not adding sulphites, and basically it's because we don't want to or need to adulterate our wines with ANY product, including sulphites. If you pay a lot of attention to quality and cleanliness throughout the whole process (from grape-growing in the vineyard, through wine production and storage) then there is absolutely no need to add sulphites. Obviously, volume producers cannot do this, and some small quality producers choose not to, perhaps because their markets are far away or because they want to cut costs. I can only say that it's perfectly possible to make quality wines with no added sulfites, because we've done it and we do it! Excellent well-balanced article. As you say, it’s not a black and white issue. As producers of natural wines, we don’t add any sulfites to our wines. I really can’t comment on whether non-sulfite wines can be drunk up to two weeks after opening, because I’ve never done the experiment! We have other reasons though for not adding sulphites, and basically it’s because we don’t want to or need to adulterate our wines with ANY product, including sulphites. If you pay a lot of attention to quality and cleanliness throughout the whole process (from grape-growing in the vineyard, through wine production and storage) then there is absolutely no need to add sulphites. Obviously, volume producers cannot do this, and some small quality producers choose not to, perhaps because their markets are far away or because they want to cut costs. I can only say that it’s perfectly possible to make quality wines with no added sulfites, because we’ve done it and we do it!

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